The Copenhagen thing, so you grew up with it, so you're one of those guys who just take

a pinch and put it right in there.

Well, eventually, I mean, the first time I did it, I got really sick.

Well that's the thing that gets you in.

It's funny, but Copenhagen and heroin never, never a great experience first time out,

but for some reason the guys that commit, they'll ride that out.

Yeah, well, I should've gotten sick the first time I did heroin that didn't happen, so I

did it many, many more times before I started working against me.

Well, so that was not that worked out too well the first time.

Indeed.

But you're still alive somehow, you're just getting small odds.

But I mean, like what to, you know, in order to dip as a kid, you gotta live a certain

life.

I mean, where did you, where did that start?

Where'd you grow up?

I grew up in a small town in central Washington, which is like mainly farming, ranching near

Spokane or no.

Right between Spokane and Seattle, right in the exact center of the state.

So like Washington, like, you know, it always strikes me as beautiful, but there's a sort

of creepiness at the core somewhere.

Well, I once read that most serial killings happen in Washington and Florida in the corners

of the tree.

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