Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that is some level of genius. It also helps that it's a long time ago, right?

It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream van plays music when it's out of ice cream.

Listen to evil genius on BBC Sounds.

Hello, I'm Ron Amitter.

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This is the BBC.

It sometimes seems as if the United States has been plunged into a cauldron,

heating up a broth flavoured by the politics of race and gender

with a dash of inequality and economic stagnation to give it extra pungency.

At times like this, we need a still, small, voice of calm.

And if that phrase has a biblical flavour, then that's only appropriate. My guest today is a writer

who does not speak often, but when she does, her voice is shaped by a fierce steadiness that combines

strong religious conviction and an uncommon

literary talent. She is Marilyn Robinson. She came to particular prominence some years ago when

Barack Obama declared her one of his favourite authors, and rather rarely for a president, interviewed

her about her work rather than the other way round.

Her first novel, Housekeeping, received high praise on its publication in 1980,

but it was 24 years before her next novel, Gilead, appeared, and won the Pulitzer Prize.

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