Mamdani, Trump and the End of the Old Politics

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 28 June 2025

⏱️ 84 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Zohran Mamdani created a new anti-establishment playbook – in his use of social video, his focus on affordability and his position on Israel. His assumed victory in New York City’s Democratic mayoral primary, trouncing the former governor Andrew Cuomo, was one of the biggest political upsets in years. And while the electorate in this case is pretty specific, I think it still points to some tectonic changes in Democratic politics. My friend Chris Hayes, the host of MSNBC’s “All In With Chris Hayes,” came on the show earlier this year to talk about his book “The Sirens’ Call,” which is all about how social media and the new attention economy are shaping politics. So I wanted to bring him back for a sequel, to get “The Sirens’ Call” take on Mamdani’s victory, and Hayes’s insights as a born-and-raised New Yorker, with a deep feel for both the city’s politics and the broader Democratic Party. This episode contains strong language. Book Recommendations: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Tomorrow Is Yesterday by Hussein Agha and Robert Malley Mao's Last Revolution by Roderick MacFarquhar and Michael Schoenhals Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The The Democratic primary that just wrapped up in New York was a collision between two very different candidates on almost every level.
0:40.1	Ideologically, outsider versus insider, name recognition,
0:45.0	but it was also a collision in a way that I think matters for much beyond New York City politics
0:50.6	of two very different theories of attention.
0:54.1	Andrew Cuomo ran a campaign.
0:56.3	There's based on a tried and true strategy of buying attention.
1:00.8	He had this gigantic super pack with tens of millions of dollars,
1:05.7	purchasing all the advertising money can buy,
1:08.7	absolutely dominating airwaves with negative ads about Zoran
1:12.8	Mamdani.
1:13.6	In his own words, Zoran Mamdani wants to defund the police.
1:18.0	Zoran Mamdani's a 33-year-old dangerously inexperienced legislator who's passed just three
1:23.4	bills.
1:24.0	Zoran Mandani, a risk New York can't afford.
1:28.9	Paid for by Fix the City.
1:34.3	And then you had Momdani, who was running a campaign on a very different theory of attention,
1:42.6	a theory of viral attention, a campaign built on these vertical videos that if you opened Instagram,
1:46.5	if you opened TikTok, and you were in any way connected to his ideas or to New York City, this was all you saw.
1:50.8	So what's your take?
1:51.9	I should be the mayor.
1:52.7	New York is suffering from a crisis, and it's called halal inflation.
	...

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