My guest is Philip Rycroft worked in the UK department for exiting the European

Union, Deksu, between March 2017 and March 2019, and from October 17 as permanent secretary, the top

position. He was responsible for leading the department in all its work on the government's preparation for Brexit.

From June 2015, March 2019, he was head of the UK Governance Group in the Cabinet Office,

with responsibility for advising ministers on all aspects of the Constitution and DeVolution.

From May 2012 to May 2015, he was the Director General in the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg.

He is now a non-executive director, academic and consultant.

Welcome to the podcast, Philip.

Thank you for having me along.

Right. Well, very recently you've published an op-ed in the Times entitled,

It is Time to Talk About Rejoining the EU. The argument is there to be one.

Before we come to that, I can't resist the temptation to very briefly to go back in time, 10 years.

Do you remember the morning of the 24th of June 2016 when the result became clear that Brexit was

going to happen, where what you were thinking

as a pretty senior civil servant already at the time? Well, it was an interesting night for us.

At that point, I was, as I continued to be responsible for all matters constitutional. So

my team had been worked with the Foreign Office, as then was on the referendum bill.

We sponsored, obviously, independent in their own right, the Electoral Commission.

But if anything had gone wrong, we were the point of contact for the Electoral Commission in government.

So we were up all night watching this as a democratic event in case there was issues at the

polling booths, anybody complaining about their ability to vote.

And from that point of view, it was a very successful evening.

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