This is Macro Voices with hedge fund manager Eric Townsend, the free weekly financial

podcast targeting professional finance, high net worth individuals, family offices, and

other sophisticated investors. Macro Voices is all about the brightest minds in the world

of finance and macroeconomics telling it like it is. Bullish your bearish, no holds

barred. Now here are your hosts, Eric Townsend and Patrick Sarasna.

Macro Voices episode 229 was pre-recorded back on July 7, 2020. I'm Eric Townsend.

This episode is brought to you by top traders on plug.com, a podcast dedicated to quant

and rules-based investing, helping investors overcome behavioral biases. For this week's

holiday special, we're going to deviate from our usual show format. We're not going to

have a market wrap or a post game interview and instead we're going to do a double-length

interview and of course to pull off a double-length interview you need a rock star guest.

So we've got Grant Williams, one of our favorite people in the industry, joining Patrick

and me for a double-length feature interview. Thanks for having me. It's always good to

chat with you guys. Grant, it's great to have you back. I have to say I am disappointed

though because you and I both have been ridiculed by a lot of people in the finance industry

for being too negative. We both predicted a lot of negative things years ago. We thought

that civil unrest would increase. We thought that there would be more fed balance sheet

expansion so that gold would eventually look like the only really sure investment on

the table. We were called all sorts of names, naysayers and permabairs and so forth. I

was kind of hoping that we would both be proven wrong by now. Unfortunately, the opposite

seems to be happening. What do we make of this current environment where it seems like

it feels to me like the fourth turning is kicking into high gear and unfortunately what

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