Hello, my name is David Rundsenman and this is Talking Politics.

An extra edition this week to follow up on the conversation that we had about Macron and France.

We recorded a discussion between two of the leading British historians of France,

Robert Toombs, who's appeared regularly on this podcast and tells us what's going to happen in France,

and John Kieger, who's an expert on French foreign policy and is working on a big new research

project looking at relationships between French and British diplomacy.

And they are going to talk about, among other things, what Brexit means to the French and for the French,

at a time when the film Dunkirk is getting a lot of play over the channel as well as here.

And taking a broader historical view of Macron

and what he means for the French state.

The first voice you're going to hear is John Kieger.

And John and Roberts started by trying to frame Macron's presidency

100 days in against the long story of how France has been ruled.

Well, he's kind of portrayed himself as more monarchist, more in touch with France's pre-Republican

days. And he thinks that the French really want to connect with that. And in many ways,

he's right. But he's certainly decided that he's

going to run the whole French state and, to a certain extent, the French economy from the apex.

And what he's attempted to do is to use symbols, to use his power as president of the Republic in a way that wasn't used by

his predecessor, Hollande, or even by his predecessor, Sarkozy. And therefore, he's decided that he's

going to replace the upper echelence of the civil service with appointments that will be people who have his view of things.

He's decided that the party will be largely on message, his new party.

He's decided that ministers won't be able to speak to the press without his say-so.

...