As a heads up, this episode has discussions of suicide and self-harm.

Please use discretion in your listening.

I came to Joy Division first because of New Order.

Every time I see you falling, I get down on my knees and praise. You know, I'm from Columbus, Ohio.

So I'm from the Midwest.

And on the punk scene I came up on when I was in my late teens, I believe.

If you lived here, you were kind of encased by a lot of really robust, hardcore pop-punk emo stuff in Chicago,

in Detroit, in Pittsburgh, in Dayton, Ohio.

And so back then, in the early 2000, especially, you could go to Chicago with like a canned

good and $3 or so and see like 10 bands. You can see like Armangelis or Transistor Revolt or the Killing

Tree and all this. It acted as a real centerpiece for me to exchange music. You know, we would drive down

and we would see people at the shows who we would see and knowing that we had to drive back,

they would give us a CD they made for us, for like five or six hour drive back.

And someone handed me a, like, New Order compilation that they'd made,

and I loved it.

And so I began with New Order and worked backwards to Joy Division, and I found out about Ian Curtis.

I was interested in the showdown. I'm observed with a pitiful eye.

And come the last for forgiveness.

Every class will be on a rewind and die.

I was interested in Ian Curtis first because I am someone who was clinically diagnosed with epilepsy when I was 13, 14.

So for my own reasons, it was kind of like, oh, here's a musician who lived with this affliction that I have been diagnosed with.

Now, granted, my epilepsy was not nearly as severe as Ian Curtis's, but it was still kind of

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