Living in Doug Wilson's Moscow: What's Coming for America (and How to Fight it)
Sons of Patriarchy
Peter Bell & Sarah Bader
4.2 • 649 Ratings
🗓️ 1 June 2026
⏱️ 50 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
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Enjoy this episode from Dismantling Doctrine (and please subscribe to Clint's podcast!) which recently had both Peter and Sarah as guests.
In this podcast episode of the Dismantling Doctrine podcast, host Dr Clint Heacock interviews Sarah Bader — co-host of the Sons of Patriarchy podcast and a longtime Moscow, Idaho resident — about life under the influence of Pastor Doug Wilson and his Christ Church. Sarah shares how she joined Peter Bell's podcast after a failed NPR project, and how growing up in Moscow since 1998 gave her a frontline view of how Doug Wilson has systematically built a religious and cultural empire in the town. The conversation covers Wilson's dominionist agenda, his ties to the American Redoubt movement, Christian nationalism, and his growing national influence through figures like Pete Hegseth.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Is it time to dismantle some doctrines? |
| 0:03.0 | If you don't know what that means, then come along with me. |
| 0:06.0 | I'm Dr. Clint Hacock, a former Evangelical Bible College teacher and pastor of more than 20 years. |
| 0:11.0 | Join me as we deconstruct whatever dogmas and beliefs have held you behind, |
| 0:16.0 | and together we'll to reconstruct and rebuild your authentic self. I'm super happy to welcome Sarah Bader to the show. |
| 0:50.5 | So welcome Sarah to the Dismantling Doctrine podcast. |
| 0:54.0 | Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. |
| 0:56.7 | Yeah, I'm really glad we made this happen. We were saying before we hit record, so you're the other half of the Sons of Patriarchy with Peter Bell. I've just had Peter on the show. We had a really great discussion. How did you come to be associated with the Sons of Patriarchy? Well, so I was recording this podcast with an NPR affiliate, and I had a mutual friend, |
| 1:15.7 | one of the administrators of examining Doug Wilson in Moscow. |
| 1:19.5 | And for a while, they had been saying, you got to meet my pastor friend. |
| 1:23.3 | He's starting a podcast. |
| 1:24.5 | And I was on this NPR track. |
| 1:26.9 | I thought this was going to be the show. And I told |
| 1:30.5 | them, I don't have time for your little pastor. I think those were my exact words. And the NPR podcast |
| 1:36.5 | was a total bust. It was, I didn't even listen to the whole thing. I think I listened to three |
| 1:42.0 | minutes of what would be considered my episode, |
| 1:45.5 | where I end up appearing. And I just started screaming. I was done. And so I called up the |
| 1:54.7 | mutual with examining Doug Wilson in Moscow and said, I'll meet with your pastor. And I think |
| 2:00.6 | that we were then connected on a call. |
| 2:03.0 | And I was flying back to Moscow, Idaho from Ann Arbor in about six days. And I said, well, I'll do an |
| 2:09.7 | interview with you, Peter. And I flew back to Moscow and sat down and did an interview with him that I think |
| 2:16.6 | lasted well over two hours. |
... |
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