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I'm Hannah Rosen. This is Radio Atlantic. Today we have a special live show as part of the Atlantic Festival in New York. Welcome, everyone. We have with us staff writer Ann Applebaum, who writes about the rise of autocracy,

and Gary Kasparov, chess world champion, who runs the Renew Democracy Initiative.

They are both hosts of season one and two of Autocracy in America, which is an amazing show, but also a show which I'm hoping

there won't be like too many more scenes and stuff.

Like what will we be talking about in season 32

of Autocracy in America?

I shudder to think what the topics will be.

So Anne, welcome to the show. Thank you. Gary, welcome to the show. Thank you. Just one correction. There would be no impossible. You cannot have too many shows to talk to America for a simple reason. Either we stop it or there will be no shows because they won. Oh, I see. They're going to cut your show off. So it's not going to be like,

live from the gulag, a secret episode of autocracy in America. Too soon. Okay, too soon for that,

the two of you have been talking about threats to democracy for a long time. You started talking

about them outside the United States. Now we're unfortunately talking about them inside the United States.

Every week we seem to see a ratcheting up, but this week felt like new territory.

So, Anne, when you saw the news about ABC and Jimmy Kimmel, what is the first thing that came to your mind?

What did you think of?

The first thing that came to my head, and I have no doubt it was

the first thing that came to Gary's head as well, was the memory of Vladimir Putin pushing

the satirical program, Kukli, which means puppets off the air in Russia. Dictators don't like

satire. They don't like being made fun of.

...