Pushkin.

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Hi there, it's Michael Lewis here. You probably know that against the rules is the first podcast that I've ever done.

And it probably shows. So I appreciate all of you first sticking with it.

The first season's over, but we want to give you something a little extra as a token of appreciation.

The writer Malcolm Gladwell and I had a conversation back in April of 2019 when against the rules had just launched.

We met in front of a live audience at the 92nd Street Y, which is this great center of culture and Jewish life on the upper east side of Manhattan.

We had a big crowd and the whole thing was a lot of fun to do.

And we talked about how I got interested in not just podcasting, but the quandary of referees in American life.

We want to give you a little peek behind the curtain of producing this show and also a glimpse of the next season of Malcolm's podcast, Revisionist History.

Thank you. Thank you Malcolm for doing this.

Thank you. My apologies to the audience. I'm the reason this is late. I was on Subway.

Yep. I feel like no further explanation is needed.

Michael, I feel like every time you do some new project, you drop me out to interview you.

I feel like this is like my fourth time doing this.

But I've done it as much for you. We've done it for me.

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