Welcome to Literary Friction on NTS.

I'm Carrie Plitt, here as always with my co-host, Octavia Bright.

Hi, Octavia.

Hi, Carrie.

How are you doing today?

I'm fucking exhausted, but I'm really pleased to be here.

Swearing right off the bat, I love it.

That's me, kids. That's the kind of energy I want from you today. I'm swearing right off the bat. I love it. That's me,

that's the kind of energy I want from you today. I'm really excited for the show today. Yeah, me too. It's going to be great. So our theme this month is the State of the Nation novel. Those books that capture the zeitgeist from Les Miserables to American pastoral to Ali Smith's seasonal quartet. Can literature speak to our times in ways other media can't?

I'm sorry, you sounded 100% like Harry Bradshaw then. I couldn't help but wonder. I know, I know. It's a little cheesy, but I'm just going to go on with it. Could you do it with? I couldn't help but wonder. Can literature speak to our times in ways other media can? Made my day. Yeah.

And my name is Carrie after all.

Really? I always identified with Miranda. I know that's cool to say now, but I was identifying with Miranda when it wasn't cool. Before she was like a political power. Yes, exactly. Carry on. But anyway, we have a really exciting guest today that is not anyone from sex in the city. Instead, it's friend of the program, Olivia Lang,

who I think has made a good argument that literature can speak to our times in really vital and

important ways with her first novel, Crudeau. In folding in real time during the summer of 2017,

in the wake of the Brexit vote and Trump's election, Crudeau features a character that very

closer resembles Kathy Acker, coming to terms with marriage. Octavia, do you want to introduce her a little bit more? I'd love to, and also I'd just love to say that, you know, Kathy Acker's a massive favour of mine, so I'm like extra thrilled. Olivia Lang is a widely acclaimed writer and critic who lives in Cambridgeshire. She writes for The Guardian, New York Times, and Freeze, among many other publications. She's the author of three previous books of nonfiction, all of which have been shortlisted for prizes and all of which have been critically acclaimed, to the river, the trip to Echo Spring, which was the book she discussed with you on the show many years ago, and The Lonely City. Crudeau is her first novel and it is a blinder. It totally is. We're so excited to talk to her. So today you'll be hearing our interview with Olivia Lang about Crudeau. Then we'll talk more generally about our theme, which is the state of the nation novel. And then as usual, we'll be giving you some book recommendations at the end. So if you want to stay relevant, stay with us on literary friction. I went back into

Carrie Bradshaw there. Nailed it. Olivia Lang, thank you so much for coming on literary friction.

Again, we're classifying you as a fop, friend of the program. I hope you don't mind that.

I love to be a fop. Good, good. So we have asked you to start with a reading from your book, Crudeau.

Sure thing.

That was the morning that white people finally realized the president of the United States was a white

supremacist. He'd as good as said so. There was a cartoon in the guardian of the White

...