Hi, I'm Dornow Porter and welcome back to So Lucky, where each week I go deep with my guest

and explore all of the sides to all of their stories. The highs and lows, their hopes and fears,

their lucky and unlucky moments. My guest for you this week is the truly one-of-a-kind

Lionel Shriver, author of We Need to Talk About Kevin, Big Brother and Property, amongst many others. Now, I am a huge

fan of Lionel's writing, which is what I focus on in this chat. She's a controversial character,

and her journalism definitely raises an eyebrow or two, and I will admit that I don't agree with

a lot of what she talks about. However, I am a huge fan of her books, and that's what I chose

to focus on for the sake of this interview. I also find her life fascinating. She tries to pass

off herself as normal, and she isn't normal. She is kind of bizarre in the way that she lives.

She stays up all night and sleeps until midday, and all these little quirks, which I can't get enough of.

So we talk about all of that.

We also talk about politeness and pushiness.

We talk about the fact that she's not on social media, which I find fascinating how anybody in this modern age cannot be on social media because it's everywhere and I'm so obsessed. I don't understand how anyone

isn't obsessed. We talk about her nocturnal existence, how books don't get any easier with

experience, which almost made me cry. And we talk about food, including her very clear rules about

popcorn, always savoury and every single day. See, she's quirky. I was so excited to talk to

Lyla and I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. So here is me, Dornow Porter, talking to the

extraordinary Lionel Shriver. I look at your life, the happy marriage, successful author.

You live between London and Brooklyn.

You appear to be very solid in who you are.

You have a routine, a rigorous routine. You exercise. You love to be very solid in who you are. You have a routine, a rigorous routine.

You exercise.

...