Welcome once again to the Conversations, That Better Podcast, I'm your coach, John Harris.

One of the things that you've heard me talk about over the years, and lately I've

talked about it a little bit more, is this problem of psychology being integrated into

Christian theology, specifically through counseling. And I'm not saying that all psychology is

necessarily bad. We'll get into that in this

podcast a little bit. But there is an assumption that comes with humanist philosophies that can be

very destructive to a biblical understanding of anthropology, who humans are, how they work, how they

function. Currently, you've heard me talk about this issue in terms of the Southern

Baptist Convention and their efforts to prevent abuse. Some of their strategies are not necessarily

strategies that would arise from the Bible, let's say. And so I want to talk about that today. And also,

I want to talk about counseling and psychology more broadly with a first time guest.

Dr. Gray Gifford is a professor at the master's,

sorry, it's Master's University now,

Master's University in California.

He is also the host of the Transform show

at Fortis Institute.

Welcome, Dr. Gifford. Thank you for being here to discuss

this. Thanks, John. Thanks for having me. So you just came out with a book on this topic,

and I know it's through a major publisher, which is impressive to me that a major publisher would

take an interest in this topic. Why do you think people are so interested in this topic now?

Do you think it's because of the MAHA movement and wanting to seek healthful food options,

but now it's also into the realm of psychology and therapy?

...