Welcome to Breaking Down Patriarchy. I'm Amy McPhee Allabest. For me, one of the most memorable quotes from Tara Westover's book, Educated, is where she says, never again would I allow myself to be made a foot soldier in a conflict I did not understand. In our previous episode, I described exactly this phenomenon in my own life.

When I voted against marriage equality in California in 2008,

I allowed myself to be made a foot soldier in a cause I did not understand.

Since that time, I have changed my thinking,

and I've tried to atone for what I see as a grievous moral error. But until now, I had never

taken the time to really become educated on the topic of LGBTQ history. So this has been an incredibly meaningful journey for me.

When I thought of Obergefell v. Hodges as a critical text for breaking down patriarchy,

I knew exactly who I hoped would be my reading partner.

He's a dear friend with whom I've talked about this issue in the past, and he's probably the smartest person I know.

It's Matthew Nelson. Oh, I've been fooling a lot of people.

Not true.

I'm so happy to welcome you back today for episode two on our four episode series on this topic.

So Matthew, thank you for coming back to the podcast today.

Of course.

Thank you for having me back to your podcast.

This is four episodes, a marathon journey, and I'm happy to be on it with you, for sure.

Thanks so much.

That last episode was pretty emotional, I think, for both of us.

And honestly, a really special and sacred experience for me.

So, but as we start this second episode, we're going to dive into the text, which is more traditional for what

we've done in the past on the podcast. And one question that I didn't ask, usually I ask

this question to all my reading partners, so I'll ask you now, is that is a question of just

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