Let's see how the arguments against #AbolishICE have aged...
Opening Arguments
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🗓️ 14 January 2026
⏱️ 86 minutes
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Summary
E19 - In the wake of Renee Nicole Good's murder, we've seen a terrible number of bad takes: from the events of that day, the overall purpose of I.C.E., and what the law says about where we go from here. Matt, Thomas, and Lydia come together to start with perhaps the biggest douchebag in the United States as part of our amuse douche (TM), followed by a pair of articles touching on why the Left was wrong about ICE in 2018 and is apparently at fault to this day for all horrors committed by ICE (eyeroll). Finally, we finish it up with questions from our amazing patrons!
Watch this episode on YouTube!
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"Abolishing ICE is a very bad idea" (Nate Bruggeman & Ben Rohrbaugh, The Philadelphia Inquirer), 3/23/2018
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"The Problem Isn't ICE. It's ICE Watch." (Dan McLaughlin, National Review), 1/10/2026
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to opening arguments. |
| 0:12.4 | This is, I mean, we used to call this Favid Response, but I feel like it's just too |
| 0:16.9 | fascist for that. |
| 0:17.8 | Fascist response. |
| 0:18.4 | Yeah. |
| 0:18.8 | There we go. |
| 0:20.4 | Fascist response Wednesday. I'm Thomas. That over there is real-life |
| 0:24.5 | immigration attorney. Matt Cameron, how are you doing? It's been quite a week, Thomas. It's been a rough one. |
| 0:29.9 | Exactly one week. Yeah. Yeah. Since we last recorded talking about the murder, Renee Good, |
| 0:36.4 | we're going to be talking about that again, but happy to be back with you. We got a lot to talk about. Yeah, it's been so long since we've done video. It feels like forever. Yeah. When did we last do video? Lydia, when did we last do video? How you doing? Hi. It's been, it's been a few weeks. I want to say right before Christmas, maybe. Yeah, that's a while. Yeah. Well, it's good to be back. It's been a while. The last time our kids were sick. That's literally the last time. Yeah. And now they're sick again. Lots to talk about today. Why don't you give us a preview? Well, we're just going to take a quick look at the fascist response, as you said, to the week's events. It's pretty concerning. |
| 1:11.2 | Got a lot to talk about there. |
| 1:12.3 | And then I just want to kind of touch on a piece from 2018 arguing against the abolition |
| 1:17.8 | of ice and see how that's aged. |
| 1:19.7 | I'm going to suggest like lettuce, I think, pretty much. |
| 1:23.5 | But it's interesting just to kind of look at the standard liberal arguments. |
| 1:26.9 | Yeah, iceberg. |
| 1:44.5 | The standard liberal arguments, you know, for preserving it. See how they've held up since 2018. We don't need to read the whole piece. It's pretty long. And then we've got a classic. We have not yet read anything, as far as I know, from the baseball crank. People might remember Dan McLaughlin from Twitter days. No? Not up in the baseball crank. We'll have to talk about him. What about you talk about? I only know because I researched it for this. So, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, that was Twitter glory days, the angry little baseball. But we will, we'll say, you're not a sports fan, so I know you're not actually talking about baseball. I don't know what's happening. |
| 2:01.2 | I do often quietly crank at baseball, but I don't really have opinions about it. Yeah, but no, |
| 2:07.2 | Dan McLaughlin writes through the National Review, among other things, and he's just a real |
| 2:10.1 | standard conservative type who's just holding, keeping the faith, even through Trump. He's a never |
| 2:14.8 | Trumper who's trying to pretend to be conservative still. Yeah. So we also solicited questions. I wanted to make sure we took on any |
| 2:21.7 | and all, you know, terrible arguments in favor of state sanctioned murder, I guess. And they're trying. |
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