Hi, I'm Anna Marie Cox and you are listening to, with friends like these, the podcast about

difference, about uncomfortable conversations, about the things that we have to deal with

in this new world of ours.

Have two conversations this week.

One is with Jeff Chu, who is an old, old friend of mine, an author of, does Jesus love

me, which is about his pilgrimage across America as a gay, Christian evangelical to find some

kind of answers about the faith he grew up with and the person he is today.

We did that in front of a live audience, so that should be a little different.

We took a bunch of questions and just fair warning, it got really Jesus' seat up in there.

So that makes you uncomfortable.

You can fast forward from Jesus to apocalypse, because the second part of the program is a

talk with our friend of the pod, Rick Wilson, the erstwhile Republican attack admaker and current

never trump stalwart, who discusses sort of the week's news and kind of the what the

fuckness of what's been happening in the White House and how conservatives have been reacting

to it.

So, of course, is still writing in the front of the never trump movement and has not

backed down an inch and does not see any comfort in some of the flip-flops that Trump has made.

In fact, I think for both Rick and myself it just scares us even more.

But first up is Jeff and enjoy.

So I'm Anna Marie Cox.

Welcome to with friends like these.

So this is a show about difficult conversations.

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