Hello there, I'm Chuck Todd. This is the Chuck Todd cast. So a crisis in Europe, a flagging

domestic agenda, threats of cyber attacks, and a Supreme Court vacancy. If you're in the

White House, those are just some of the issues on your to-do list. Sometimes it does make

you wonder why anybody wants to be president some days. My guest today knows a little

something about these overlapping issues that cross into a West Wing and he's been in

the middle of the infinite. We secrete defense director of the CIA during the Obama administration.

But he had a crucial task during the Clinton administration. He was sort of the chief

of staff that had to pivot. So he used a perfect person to talk to about how to handle that

Mr. Pineda. Always a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks for doing this topic with me. Chuck,

good to be with you. So, you know, I always love to joke about your resume, but it's a resume

that was well-learned. And walk me through, if I'm not, let me get my facts straight here,

you were budget director, right? That was your first gig with Clinton. And it, in fact,

you were the pioneer in my head that said, budget director might be the single, if there

is a training job for chief of staff, it's, it's budget director, right? Explain.

Well, those were the days when budgets men held a lot more than they do these days. But,

you know, I think OMB director had a tremendous influence because ultimately, whatever the

administration wanted to do, it had to be paid for, and it had to be part of the budget.

And so the budget was largely a reflection of the priorities of that administration. And

obviously, the person who put those, that budget together and defined those priorities

as the OMB director.

So Jeff's Ion said to me, he goes, you know, being budget director, working in there, he

said, it really actually makes you appreciate everything the government does. Like, you don't

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