When you say second chances, I tell people I don't believe in second chances and I pause.

You don't believe in second chances, what you're in this position for if you don't believe in second chances?

I come to understand that they need better

chances. You can give them a second, third, fourth, 90 times and they'll keep going to prison. Why? Because some of them have the first change.

Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a

husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis and the last part it

unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team called Undefeded.

Guys I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits

using big words that nobody else uses on CNN and Fox, but rather an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can

help.

That's what Lee Robbins, the voice we just heard is done. This pastor and businessman never expected to

find himself in prison and yet there he was and so he decided to dive in

serving the minds and souls of the men around them.

And when he got out, he then started a reentry program called Vital Signs,

which has helped over 1,800 returning citizens and boast a recidivism

rate of only 2%.

And my favorite part, this model of his, it's self-sustaining. I cannot wait for you to meet

Pastor Lee right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors.

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. I write about true crime, which means I live inside the research wormhole, but I'm not necessarily interested in the headline

grabbing elements, the blood and the gore, all of that. I'm more interested in the people

behind these stories and what we can learn by looking at their experiences.

You can meet me every week on the greatest true crime stories ever told where I dig into

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