Yes, Hamish, I definitely used alcohol as liquid courage throughout my life. I mean, I was adding

cheap, bubbly to my personality because it made me more showy and fun. I do it now in

different ways because I'm introverted now.

I put on bright clothing

like Hamish and I did a photo shoot this week

and I was dressed up basically like a clown.

Yeah, you look like a children's TV presenter.

I did. I looked like Wackaday.

What's his name?

You're probably a bit young.

Before my time, Vic.

Timmy Mallet.

Anyone listening is in their 40s would know exactly who Timmy Mallet is. I can't believe that's before your time. You're making me feel old. But I was wearing bright clothes because sometimes I do that, like to prop up my personality like I used to do with alcohol. So I have different ways of being an extrovert now, which is a bit sad. No, I like that about you. Yeah, I looked at you that day. I was like, God, I have dull

clothes. Okay. I came in black jeans and a grey hoodie. And then you came dressed as a rainbow. I was like, what is my life? I was like a rainbow farting unicorn, wasn't I that day? I was like jumping around like the sprightly sober clown and sort of Hamish was stood beside me with sort of sad face. Yeah, exactly. I went shopping yesterday and thought, I need to rethink this.

Okay, I'll take you shopping to the rainbow shop at the plaza. You'll love it. Yeah, you're going to come out. Your wife's going to go, what's the fuck? So I drank before going out, and if we're really going to think about this, why do people drink before going out? What do you think? It's confidence, isn't it? It's confidence. So you're drinking because you think it's going to make you more have fun and it's

going to top you up and make you feel better about yourself, which is really toxic when you think

about it. It's also nerves. Why people get nerves and butterflies before going out? Yes, and you've got

social anxiety. So therefore you're feeling nervous and the alcohol

takes that away and makes you feel better for a short moment in time. But that's not the

real you. So it's really fucked up. Have you ever thought that also it's just something to do

with your hands? Whenever I'm having a standing conversation with someone, rather than a sitting

conversation. I need to do something with my hands. And holding a drink or holding a cigarette is something to do with your hands. Yeah, I guess that's why alcohol-free drinks now. Like, I know I don't agree with the re-representation of the culture. But at the same time, standing with an alcohol-free drink at a bar, for me now, like having an alcohol-free beer, I do feel more comfortable because of that exact reason. It gives me something in my hands. It gives me a replacement. I'm still getting a treat. I'm still out. And no one's asking me any questions. So it's the same kind of thing, isn't it? It's a matter of replacing it and finding something healthier that's going to work better than a booze. Yeah, so I drank before going out. And I couldn't often remember leaving the house. So I wouldn't remember my entire night, which is mental, isn't it? I wouldn't even remember leaving my house because I've been doing shots of vodka in my living room before going out. It's crazy. So what's the point in even going out then? I don't really understand. I had a reputation of being an extrovert. I remember on my 30th, I just wanted to do a

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