Learning How to Hold Space for Others with Cindy Lee

Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Center for Action and Contemplation

Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.8 • 748 Ratings

🗓️ 4 December 2025

⏱️ 50 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

How can we de-Westernize spirituality and honor our full humanity within systems that often diminish it? On this episode of Learning How to See, Dr. Cindy Lee, a spiritual director and author, joins hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher for a conversation on de-Westernizing spirituality and holding space for the lived experience of others. Cindy shares how her work with BIPOC communities revealed the limits of Westernized spiritual formation, and how confronting the “Western missionary gaze” can open us to seeing our cultures — and ourselves — with dignity rather than judgment. Resources: Read Howard Thurman's "The Sound of the Genuine" here. Find the transcript of this episode⁠ ⁠here.⁠⁠ Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to a podcast by the Center for Action and Contemplation. To learn more, visit
0:05.5	cac.org. Hi, everyone. It's Brian. One of the assumptions that guide us in making learning
0:12.9	how to see is that we really learn best together in conversation, in community, and by asking
0:19.5	questions we can't answer alone. I have a favor to ask.
0:23.3	If this podcast has been helpful to you, would you consider leaving a rating or review wherever you
0:28.8	listen? That small gesture helps other spiritual seekers find their way here, and it helps us
0:34.4	grow the community of people learning how to see and learning how to love.
0:38.5	And please keep your questions coming.
0:40.8	Your questions guide us and they help us feel connected as fellow learners.
0:45.4	You can always reach us at podcasts at cac.org.
0:51.4	Hi, I'm Carmen Acevedo Butcher.
0:54.6	And I'm Brian McLaren and welcome to learning how to see.
0:58.7	As the podcast name suggests, this podcast is about seeing.
1:03.5	Each season, we explore some aspect of learning to see, learning to encounter reality,
1:10.0	not just on the surface with our eyes, but deeply,
1:13.6	with our whole being.
1:15.6	And this season, we are exploring what it means to see with eyes of love.
1:20.6	Thank you for trusting us with this time, and for being the kind of person who cares about
1:26.6	learning how to see with eyes of love.
1:30.8	In today's episode, we will be joined by Cindy Lee. Cindy S. Lee is a spiritual director and aspiring
1:38.3	mystic and proudly Taiwanese-American. She leads retreats in the areas of Christian mysticism and Bipak-centered spirituality.
1:47.8	She completed a PhD in practical theology in the area of spiritual formation from Claremont School
	...

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