So if I had to make one prediction slash hope for where this could go, I actually think the era of shareholder primacy is already over.

We are like the roadrunner. We have already run off this cliff, but we haven't looked down.

The idea of shareholder primacy was supposed to be good for investors, but we're now in the era of extraction primacy, where this thing is starting to eat its own tail.

Companies are being hollowed out and value is being destroyed.

And I think when we all wake up to this, it's going to be very easy, actually, to just decide, let's have mission primacy as our next day.

Let's give that a try, because this other idea has just wreaked nothing but 50 years of destruction in its wake.

Serial entrepreneur, author, podcaster, and startup advisor Eric Reese is the author of the 2011 New York

Times bestseller The Lean Startup, which

created a movement and changed how founders build companies by introducing and popularizing

fundamental concepts like minimum viable product, build, measure, learn, and pivot.

His new book, Incorruptible, Why Good Companies Go Bad and How Great Companies Stay Great,

comes out May 26th.

Eric, welcome to the geekwire podcast.

Oh, it's an honor to be here.

So we just got off stage here at Seattle Flow Startup Day, and I got to interview you on stage

for the opening keynote.

So for people who weren't here, can you give us your elevator pitch?

What is incorruptible?

What's the core argument behind your book?

Okay, so in our economy today, we have created almost innumerable ways for people to make money without

creating any value. And this is so common, we don't even really know what to call it. Like when a great

company goes bad, becomes bureaucratic or malign or worse when like our favorite

...