Lawfare Daily: What’s Behind Russian Incursions Into NATO

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 23 September 2025

⏱️ 65 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Minna Ålander, an associate fellow at Chatham House Europe Program, and Mykhailo Soldatenko, a scholar of international law and a doctoral candidate at Harvard Law School, to discuss Russia’s recent air incursions into Poland and Estonia, and whether NATO’s response to it has been proportional.

For more, read a report about Russian hybrid warfare co-authored by Minna Ålander.

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Transcript

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1:12.4	Like in total, as I said, I think that the NATO response itself was pretty okay.
1:17.5	But the main data point for the Russians was that was the European NATO allies that responded here, not the Americans.
1:24.9	So they were not involved really in this response.
1:28.4	It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Anastasia Lepatina, Ukraine fellow at Lawfare, with Minna Allander,
1:35.2	an associate fellow at Chatham House Europe program, and Mikhailo Saladentko, a scholar of international
1:41.4	law and a doctoral candidate at the Harvard Law School.
1:45.2	For me, it's logical that they might say,
1:49.7	look, when we are saying that any aircrafts in Ukrainian airspace would be a legitimate target,
	...

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