Over the last few months, I think since that July when we were there,

the situation has slowly deteriorated and now it's really falling apart.

I think we're definitely in the final act of the Battle of Bukrovsk as we speak.

And in the next few weeks, I think the city will probably fall, unfortunately.

It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Anastasia Lapatina, Ukraine Fellow at Lawfare, with Francis

Farrell, a frontline reporter at the Kim Independent.

So, you know, giving that away for free to Russia just in exchange for a promise

that they won't attack again and they won't keep going is ridiculous. You speak to any

Ukrainian soldier who's fought for years in Donbass and they say we will simply not accept

such orders to withdraw from Donbass.

I sat down with Francis to discuss the looming fall of Pekrovsk,

how the front line has transformed into a kill zone

and whether Ukraine could succumb to Russian demands and give up Donbos.

Francis, you were recently in several areas along the front line in Ukraine's east.

Tell us about that trip of yours.

Hi, it's good to be here.

So, yeah, I was in eastern Ukraine in frontline areas, you could say, about a month ago.

Unlike most trips where we always somehow end up in Donetsk Oblast

in the Donbas region because that just ends up being the place where the hottest fighting is

happening. This time we decided to focus more on the city of Kupyansk in Kharkiv Oblast further north and this is a bit of a sad milestone

to see fighting return to the city of Kupyansk because I remember going there just over three

years ago not long after it was liberated in Ukraine's stunning September 22, Kharkiv counteroffensive.

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