Lawfare Daily: The Duty to Disobey Unlawful Orders
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 11 December 2025
⏱️ 54 minutes
🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
News of a U.S. attack on a boat off the coast of Venezuela—which included a second strike on survivors of the first—has raised new concerns about the administration’s operations against alleged drug traffickers. Legal analysts, including some at Lawfare, call the second strike clearly unlawful. So why did the U.S. military agree to follow the order?
On today’s episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett discusses the roles and responsibilities of military personnel with Frank Rosenblatt, a professor at MC Law and a former U.S. Army Lt. Col and Judge Advocate General in the U.S. Army, and Colby Vokey, former Marine Corps Lt. Col and Judge Advocate General. They talk about the duty to disobey unlawful orders, the complexity of choosing to do so, and what it means for the future of U.S. operations.
To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Nearly every news alert in 2025 has raised questions, some old, some new, about the law and national security. |
| 0:07.5 | And now you get the chance to ask Lawfare directly. It's time for our annual Ask Us Anything Mailbag podcast, an opportunity for you to ask Lawfare this year's most burning questions. |
| 0:18.3 | You can submit your question by leaving a voicemail at 202-643-8474. |
| 0:26.5 | Or by sending a recording of yourself asking your question to Ask Us Anything Lawfare at gmail.com by December 16th. |
| 0:36.5 | The administration is calling this a non-international armed conflict, thereby justifying |
| 0:42.3 | that they're allowed to use this kind of force. I think that's faulty anyway, but you can't just |
| 0:49.8 | declare it a non-international armed conflict, and it makes it so because you say so. |
| 0:55.0 | It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Natalie Orpat, executive editor of Lawfare, with Frank Rosenblatt, a professor at MC Law and former Lieutenant Colonel and Judge Advocate General in the U.S. Army. |
| 1:08.1 | And Colby Voki, former Lieutenant Colonel and Judge Advocate General in the U.S. Marine, and Colby Voki, former the Lieutenant Colonel and Judge Advocate General in the U.S. |
| 1:12.4 | Marine Corps. |
| 1:14.0 | For both of our careers, we were told to provide independent legal advice to our commanders. |
| 1:20.7 | We would call them like we saw them. |
| 1:22.6 | Sometimes lawyers wouldn't always agree on things, but we would, you know, hash things out |
| 1:26.5 | and come to some sort of |
| 1:28.1 | workable solution on what the legal advice in a situation is. Early in 2025, that seemingly has |
| 1:35.2 | changed. Today we're talking about unlawful orders in the military. What obligation military personnel |
| 1:42.0 | have to disobey? Who determines what's lawful? |
| 1:45.5 | And how we should think about the ongoing boat strikes in the Caribbean. |
| 1:49.8 | So I do want to start with the legal framework at issue here and really drill down on what these |
| 1:55.8 | responsibilities are, where they come from, et cetera. |
| 1:58.6 | And then afterwards, I'd love to speak with you about your |
| 2:02.0 | experiences generally and your experiences working more recently on the Orders Project, which, as I |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Lawfare Institute, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of The Lawfare Institute and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

