Lawfare Daily: ‘Ransom War’ with Max Smeets

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 26 June 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Max Smeets, Co-Director of Virtual Routes and Senior Researcher at ETH Zurich, joins Lawfare’s Jonathan Cedarbaum and Justin Sherman to discuss his recently released book “Ransom War: How Cybercrime Became a Threat to National Security.” They discuss the history of ransomware (including the term itself), how the threats have evolved over the years, and some of the major drivers of innovation and entrepreneurialism within the ransomware ecosystem. They discuss Max’s findings on the “trust paradox” facing ransomware groups, the internal business dynamics of ransomware gangs, how governments leverage ransomware operators to their own ends, and how the United States and Europe can respond to future threats.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter, Lawfare No Bull,
0:26.9	and The Aftermath.
0:31.6	How did the dog sneak out?
0:34.4	When did that parcel vanish?
0:36.9	Who was outside last night? Arlo doesn't miss a thing. From 4K cameras
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0:52.0	in one powerful security system.
0:57.9	Find out more and get conditions at arlo.com.
1:02.5	Hey, we're still off a pickleball Sunday.
1:04.5	Oh, so hold on a sec.
1:06.0	Hey, how's the hustle?
1:07.1	Pretty busy.
1:07.8	No time to chat.
1:08.6	I'm married to the grind.
1:10.0	He's asking me my 10K time.
1:11.9	That's none of your business.
1:13.2	This place.
1:14.6	So boring.
1:16.1	It's just not me.
	...

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