You know, there are these connections that creates a kind of culture in a community online that

is, even if the targets don't end up being women, can also foment and foster violence.

And that is pretty well documented in the field. It's really oriented around punishing women

for not giving these men what they think they are entitled to.

It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Daniel Biman, the Foreign Policy Editor of Lawfare,

with Cynthia Miller Idris, a professor at American University and the author of Man Up,

The New Misogyny and the Rise of Violent Extremism.

It's not just men, not just some men who do this, but also women and women have played a big

role in policing boys and also in policing girls with gender norms and expectations,

and then in sometimes promoting and sustaining misogynist systems and white supremacist ones,

including in violent ways.

Today we're talking about her book and how understanding and exploring different forms of

misogyny is vital for understanding violence today. I want to kind of start with what I feel was perhaps most interesting as a reader on this book,

is that I found it was both familiar and novel.

Like most of what I was reading about, I was like, yeah, I read about that, or yeah, I kind of knew about that.

But you're taking what I always thought of as very

separate events and separate problems and helping me see them through a lens that mixes misogyny

and mass shootings and violence. Can you tell me a little bit, first of all, about why you decided to write this book?

Yeah, great question.

And I love that you had that experience because it's sort of one of my goals of the way that

I wrote the book was I was hoping that people would recognize what I was talking about,

but maybe had not yet reflected on it.

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