4.7 • 6.2K Ratings
🗓️ 31 January 2025
⏱️ 44 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Chris Mirasola, an assistant professor at the University of Houston Law Center and former Defense Department lawyer, to talk through the ways that the Trump administration is using the military to enforce its new immigration policies.
They discussed the steps the Trump administration has taken thus far, from transporting migrants on military flights to threatening to send them to Guantanamo Bay; the legal theories that the Trump administration is putting out there that might justify other, broader uses of the military; additional steps we should expect the administration to pursue in the near future; and what it all might mean for the rule of law and civil-military relations in our country.
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising. |
| 0:04.4 | To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare |
| 0:10.8 | at patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare. |
| 0:18.2 | Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter, |
| 0:25.2 | Lawfare No Bull, and The Aftermath. |
| 0:31.5 | None of the authorities that are at issue with this new tranche of DOD support constitute an |
| 0:37.1 | express exception to the |
| 0:38.4 | Posse Comitatis Act, which is to say that none of these authorities authorize the military |
| 0:44.4 | personnel to take on a law enforcement function. |
| 0:48.8 | It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson with Chris Marasola, |
| 0:53.8 | assistant professor at the University of Houston Law Center. |
| 0:56.8 | So long as you have governors who are willing to make their National Guard members available for a border security mission, |
| 1:04.7 | and there's plenty of evidence of governors being comfortable with that from the First Trump administration, |
| 1:10.6 | you have a really |
| 1:12.0 | large population of military personnel that you can draw from to execute these kind of missions at |
| 1:19.6 | the southern border. Today, we're talking about how the Trump administration is using the military |
| 1:24.6 | to enforce its new immigration policies thus far, And what else may be coming down the pike? |
| 1:30.1 | So, Chris, we are a week and a little change into the second Trump administration. |
| 1:36.5 | And we are at the point now where we are beginning to see a number of actions that are making good to various extents, although perhaps not fully in the |
| 1:46.7 | ways some might have expected, on some of the campaign promises President Trump made about |
| 1:52.8 | engaging in immigration enforcement more broadly, but specifically about using the military |
| 1:57.1 | for immigration enforcement and potentially for other domestic purposes, but so far really |
... |
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