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But the idea that we could ask some of these organizations that are victims of Voltaifoon to

implement a deterrence by denial strategy is so far from possible that I can't consider it

within the next decade based on the maturity of some of these organizations and what we're

asking victims to stand up against.

It's a military with tens of thousands of people who kind of dedicated

this issue. It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Eugenia L'Hourri, senior editor at Lawfare, with Dakota

Carrie, Strategic Advisory Consultant at Sentinel One. Where in conflict, where in escalation

ladders, do we think that China would go, okay, now is the time to attack civilian critical infrastructure in the United States?

I think that's a really hard question to ask. And if I could say anything to U.S. policymakers, it would be focus your analytical efforts on determining where in that crisis,

China makes that decision.

Today, we're talking about whether China's hacking groups can be deterred.

So, Dakota, a few weeks ago, the Wall Street Journal reported that hackers linked to the Chinese

...