Lawfare Archive: Countering Chinese Espionage
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 5 July 2021
⏱️ 51 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
From December 14, 2019: Recently, former CIA officer Jerry Lee was sentenced to 19 years in prison for conspiring to share classified information with the Chinese government. During the time in which Lee was in touch with Chinese intelligence agents, dozens of CIA sources in China were arrested or killed—a catastrophe for CIA operations in the country. What's the connection between this disaster and the Lee case? And what do both mean for Chinese counterintelligence work overall? David Priess sat down with John McLaughlin, practitioner-in-residence at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and former acting director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and Shane Harris, intelligence and national security reporter for The Washington Post whose reporting covered much of the Jerry Lee case. They talked about the case, counterintelligence in China and the impact on the U.S.-China relationship.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair |
| 0:07.2 | podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:14.7 | That's patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:18.2 | Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair |
| 0:25.6 | no bull and the aftermath. |
| 0:39.8 | This is the LawFair Archive. |
| 0:45.2 | Hello, this is LawFair intern Cristiana Wayne with a podcast in the LawFair Archives for July |
| 0:51.0 | 5th, 2021. |
| 0:53.6 | This week at the Centennial celebration of the Chinese Communist Party, President |
| 0:58.2 | Xi Jinping declared the unstoppable rise of his country, threatening quote, the Chinese |
| 1:02.9 | people will never allow foreign forces to bully, oppress or enslave us. |
| 1:07.9 | Whoever nurses delusions of doing that will crack their heads and spill blood on the |
| 1:12.5 | great wall of steel, built from the flesh and blood of 1.4 billion Chinese people. |
| 1:19.0 | For today's episode from the Archives, I chose to go back to December 2019, or a discussion |
| 1:24.5 | of another instance of gamemanship between China and the United States. |
| 1:29.2 | Here Shane Harris and former deputy director of the CIA, John McLaughlin. |
| 1:34.8 | Talk to David Prius about Chinese counterintelligence and its impact on the US-China relationship. |
| 1:48.4 | He is acknowledging that he conspired, he pled guilty to one count of conspiring to spy |
| 1:54.2 | for China. |
| 1:55.3 | The money, how it got there, who put it there, did he really give information to the Chinese, |
| 1:59.9 | is all information that falls into these gaps that run throughout the Jury Lee story. |
| 2:06.4 | Things that he will acknowledge and court, the things that he has never been forced to |
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