Law and Order: How to Fix Britain's Courts (Lady Hale)

Radical with Amol Rajan

BBC

Society & Culture

4.5 • 919 Ratings

🗓️ 3 July 2025

⏱️ 53 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Is there a better way to handle divorce and family separation in the courts? Lady Hale thinks there is.

The former president of the UK’s Supreme Court explains why there needs to be a more streamlined approach and how cuts to legal aid have impacted the family justice system (14:37).

She also talks to Amol about the rise of authoritarianism (27:42), assisted dying (31:39) and whether lawyers should still wear wigs (42:47).

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Amol Rajan is a presenter of the Today programme on BBC Radio 4. He is also the host of University Challenge on BBC One. Before that, Amol was media editor at the BBC and editor at The Independent.

Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Izzy Rowley. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

Transcript

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0:00.0	BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.
0:05.0	Hello, this is Radical with Amal Rajan conversations about tomorrow from today,
0:10.3	where I explore the global trends that are reshaping our world.
0:14.3	And I also go in search of the radical ideas that can help you win the future.
0:20.6	And then suddenly outside the entrance to my father's study, there was an ambulance.
0:25.8	We had seen that our whole family security had been wiped out in 48 hours.
0:30.7	I've got one thing about the family justice system that I think really does need to be reformed.
0:39.9	In this episode then, a conversation with the judge Brenda Hale, Lady Hale, who as president of the UK Supreme Court, said this. The Prime
0:47.7	Minister's advice to Her Majesty was unlawful, void and of no effect. Parliament has not been pro-robed. Well, that Prime Minister was, of course,
0:56.9	Boris Johnson. Look, one of the missions of Radical is to really do a deep dive into the life
1:03.4	and thought of genuine pioneers. And pioneers are people who've done something that no one else has.
1:09.7	They've done something for the first time. And I've met and interviewed a lot of very cool people, a lot of very powerful and influential people. I can say hand on heart, I don't think I've ever met anyone who was racked up as many firsts as Brenda Marjorie Hale. Right, bear with me on this because there's quite a lot to get through and this is the edited version. Here we go. She was the first person from her grammar school in Yorkshire to go to
1:31.7	Cambridge. She got the top first in her year at Cambridge. She was the youngest person and the
1:37.7	first woman to be appointed to the law commission. She was the first woman, first woman ever to be
1:42.9	appointed as a law lord. She was the first female, first woman ever to be appointed as a law lord. She was the first
1:45.6	female justice of the Supreme Court and then she was the first female president of the Supreme
1:50.7	Court which made her the most senior judge in this country. And it's the judicial system that she
1:57.3	thinks needs help. Look, she's got some pretty strong opinions about a range of subjects from assisted dying,
2:02.2	which she favours to that Daily Mail front page, which said,
2:04.9	Enemies of the People, which I think it's fair to say she's not a huge fan of,
2:08.7	but she's also got, and that's why she's here,
2:11.0	some pretty radical ideas about how to fix the law in Britain.
	...

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