Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”)

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Lenny Rachitsky

Technology, Business, Entrepreneurship

5 • 1.5K Ratings

🗓️ 12 September 2024

⏱️ 111 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Phyl Terry is the author of Never Search Alone, which I’ve seen so many people reference as the most impactful guide they read for finding a job. Phyl was on the founding team of the first company Amazon acquired back in the ’90s and then was CEO of pioneering product consulting firm Creative Good, with companies like Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft as customers. Today, Phyl is the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, which 20 years ago pioneered bringing councils to senior product leaders and GMs in Silicon Valley. That’s their day job—in addition to that, Phyl runs a free global community for job seekers based on their latest book. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why you should never search for a job alone

• How job search councils work

• How to determine your “candidate-market fit”

• How to conduct a listening tour

• Creating your job mission and OKRs

• How to negotiate job offers

• The art of asking for help

• Tactics for effective networking and interviewing

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

• Sprig—Build products for people, not data points

• Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/land-your-dream-phyl-terry

—

Where to find Phyl Terry:

• X: https://x.com/phylterry

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phylterry/

• Website: https://www.phyl.org/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Phyl’s background

(01:58) The concept of job search councils

(04:27) The power of community in job searching

(08:55) The scale and structure of job search councils

(12:27) The impact of job search councils

(20:19) The concept of candidate-market fit

(22:50) Writing a Mnookin two-pager

(24:37) Conducting listening tours

(30:12) Creating a focused candidate-market fit

(36:20) Advice on finding the right stage of company for you

(40:37) Identifying your unique path

(45:30) Navigating tough job markets

(49:07) Playing to win

(53:36) Negotiation tactics for job offers

(01:05:12) The gratitude house exercise

(01:10:48) The power of asking for help

(01:19:18) How to ask for help

(01:28:40) Final thoughts and advice

(01:38:21) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	When you're looking for a job, you need a spirit and not an act.
0:03.4	What happens when we're building a product? Same thing, right? We want this product to be for everyone,
0:07.2	but we've learned with product market vit that doesn't work. We need a narrow clear focus.
0:12.1	How did you realize this is a really powerful method versus the way people normally
0:15.6	look for jobs?
0:16.6	While it's hard to figure out your candidate market fit, it's also a relief to know it's not about
0:20.4	you.
0:21.4	So what I ask people to do is I ask them to think about what they want and what they don't want.
0:24.6	Now, you might not think that that's a radical step letting, but most people don't do that.
0:29.3	When they get laid off, they spray and prey.
0:31.2	This is very much like a product person thinks about new product.
0:34.0	There's no I in team. Well there is an I in village and the I in village is that when you start to
0:38.7	interview and negotiate, you've got to be in charge. I want you to play to win not not to lose.
0:44.5	Is there anything else that you think might be helpful to people looking for a job?
0:49.0	If someone did this, it would blow my mind. I would hire them on the spot.
0:57.2	Today my guest is Phil Terry.
0:59.3	Phil is the author of Never Search Alone, which I've seen so many people reference as the most impactful thing they read for helping them find a job.
1:06.4	Once you listen to this episode, you'll see why.
1:09.2	Prior to this book, Phil was on the founding team of the first company that Amazon acquired back in the 90s,
1:14.7	and then was CEO of the pioneering product and customer experience consulting firm Creative Good
1:19.8	for over 15 years, where Phil and the team had companies like Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, and
1:25.4	hundreds of other companies as customers.
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Lenny Rachitsky, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Lenny Rachitsky and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.