Hello, I'm Hugo Rifkin, and now we're going to be unpacking the politics of the day,

which is mostly the small matter of the future of the Labour Party in the country,

but we'll try and find the time to discuss some other things too.

And joining me, two giant brains leaping from the Times comment pages into your ears,

albeit not literally because of the relative sizes of brains and ears,

as I'm sure you understand. But they are Matthew Syed. Hello, Matthew. Morning. Good morning. How are you?

Good. Good. You? Yeah. Klinging on, you know. And Jenny Russell. Hello, Jenny. Hi. Who you go? How you

keeping? Cold? Cold, really? Well, you know, pointless is to have a summer wardrobe when, you know, blue sky, but it's freezing. Yeah, our heating came on this morning. I felt like a climate criminal. Anywho, let's crack on. Allies of the Prime Minister, and there are still some, are arguing that the country will not thank the party for plunging the country into a fresh bout of chaos. look, where do we go with this, Jenny? The country doesn't want chaos,

but on the other hand, the country into a fresh bout of chaos. Look, where do we, where do we go with this, Jenny? The country doesn't want chaos, but on the other hand, the country has shown at the ballot box that they might not want Kirstama either. What should the Labour Party be doing? Well, if they had any sense, if they cared about the country, they'd call a general election, but of course they're not going to do that. I mean, it looks to me as if West Streeting has absolutely no choice now having led everybody up the garden path

but to challenge Stama. So we're into months and months of infighting and

paralysis as far as the voters are concerned. Do you think do you think Kirstama should

I mean do you think she should kick Kistama should step down even if West Streeting doesn't challenging?

No, I don't think he should because I think appalling as Stama is, and I've been very critical of him right from the start,

I think it's quite plausible that everyone that follows him would be worse.

It's possible that West Streeting would be a decent Prime Minister, but he's completely

unproven. He's very charming. He's very intelligent. He's good in his feet. He can communicate.

Do we know whether he has a program for the country? We do not. And as for everybody else,

that this ignorance about the economy, which they pretty much all display, the belief that you can just

spend endlessly and somehow the bill will never come due when you're responsible, will be

absolutely fatal for the country. So I'm very depressed because I don't think that we're streeting

on any of the evidence that we've got is going to appeal to sufficient numbers of the Labour Party members who tend to be very left-wing.

So we'll end up with a more left-wing prime minister than Kirstama, and we'll be in an even greater most in three years time than we are now.

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