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Amy Robock and T.J. Holmes present.

Killer Thriller with your host, Alisa Donovan.

Hey, everyone. Elisa Donovan here, and this is killer thriller.

Okay, so lately on this show, we've been diving into stories that are wild, shocking, and honestly, a little bit too real.

From gas up by my husband to I am Elizabeth Smart to Joe versus Carol, there is a pattern that keeps showing up again and again.

And it's not just crime. It's control. It's manipulation. It's narcissism and gaslighting.

And these are the kinds of people who can, they can charm you, confuse you, and completely rewrite your reality.

Sometimes without you even realizing that

it's happening. So today, we're pulling back the curtain on all of that. We are joined by Dr. Jamie

Zuckerman, a clinical psychologist, an expert in narcissistic abuse. And we're going to break down

what we're actually watching in these stories and how it shows up in real life.

Because once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Dr. Jamie, welcome to Killer Thriller.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

So I have been noticing a pattern across all of these stories that we have been talking about recently,

whether it's the criminals themselves or these just larger-than-life characters. And there

definitely seems to be a thread of narcissism running through a lot of them. So what does it

actually mean to be a narcissist from a clinical perspective? Yeah, no, that's a great question.

So as we know from social media, it's being thrown all over everywhere.

And people, on the one hand, it's great.

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