From the opinion pages of the Wall Street Journal, this is Free Expression with Jerry Baker.

Hello and welcome to Free Expression with me, Jerry Baker, from the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

We're delighted you listening to this podcast. If you enjoy it, please be sure to subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify and elsewhere.

Please also be kind enough to leave us a favorable review. Now at the journal's editorial page, we believe passionately in free expression. And each week on this podcast, we explore the big issues in candor and depth with leading figures in the fields of politics, business, science, technology, arts and culture, and other fields. My guess this week is Kellyanne Conway, political consultant, strategist, and pollster.yanne, of course, was senior councillors of Donald Trump throughout most of his presidency after she had been the first woman to manage a successful presidential campaign. She's out with a new book, a memoir, Here's the Deal, which documents her life from a child growing up in a one-parent family in southern New Jersey, where she was raised by actually a mother, grandmother and two unmarried aunts, she says, to the very pinnacle of politics in the White House. After graduating college, she went into the polling business, working for corporate clients, as well, of course, as a succession of Republicans, including Newt Gingrich, Mike Pence, and others. In the early stages of the 2016 Republican presidential primary, she worked for Ted Cruz,

but then joined the campaign of Donald Trump, a man she'd known for some time in New York,

not least because she and her husband had lived in a condo in a Trump residential building.

She worked for almost four years in that turbulent times in the Trump administration,

finally leaving in August 2020, which given what was to come in the following

few months looks like very good timing. She's now once again working on various campaigns,

including advising a number of Republican candidates in the midterms. And she joins me now.

Kelly Ann, thank you very much for joining me. It's always a pleasure, Jerry. Thank you for having

me. So let me start with me. You are once again advising the Republican candidates, amongst

other things. Donald Trump is out there, it seems, on the brink probably, of declaring another presidential campaign. This seems like a natural, happy marriage of supply and demand, Kelly. Are you expecting to be reunited with the man you work for?

As goes, Trump 2024. I have had those direct conversations with President Trump, and my advice to him

privately and publicly is the same. If he wishes to be president of the United States again,

he should have a cage match rematch against Joe Biden and offer a binary policy and accomplishments

contrast from the Trump White House to the Biden White House. No more of this talking

about the past, look toward the future, develop a vision. But look, that has to be weighed against

any number of countervailing factors. The biggest one, in my view, is whether the people who want

to constantly investigate him and his family and the people around him

are ever going to let up on the gas. It looks like they won't. So that's a very personal decision for him.

But President Trump is like a majority of Americans Jerry. He sees that the country is headed way off

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