Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. When I tell you that we have been waiting so long and with such anticipation to do this conversation, we are talking today to one of the most important artists in our family's life.

Yep.

Not just artists, but people, activists, just way of being.

People we look towards.

And that's Katie Gavin. Katie Gavin, you'll see. This conversation healed parts of us, I think. It made us feel hopeful for the future for the first time in a while. It is about so many things.

It's about how to find that little kernel of desire inside of you and how to have the courage to unleash it out into the world. It's about

intergenerational healing, about how to honor what's come before us while also letting go of what

we don't want to take with us into the future. It's about recovery and addiction and how to begin to make our lives that have

become small, bigger. It's about listening to the signals in our body. It's about how to live

right now in a way that makes this planet habitable and more beautiful for the next generation.

It's hard to believe that all of this is in the conversation. It's so beautiful. You'll see. It's literally one of my favorite conversations we've ever had on

We Can New Hard Things. Same. Katie Gavin is not only our personal hero, but is also a musician and

member of the pop band, Moona, of course, Life So Fun, Life So Fun, You know, and released her debut solo album, What a Relief,

which is the soundtrack of our home this past October 24. It's an album about desire for connection

and the obstacles in the way of achieving that. Gavin's explorations of desire and intimacy

are time-worn and so necessary right now. And her songs truly are

sort of like a clarion call for her generation about how to live and how to look inside yourself

for guidance and move forward. She is currently in the studio with Muna working on their

forthcoming album. And I just want to say, this is going to, I'm attaching this to Katie's bio, she is now

my best friend. Yes. Abby Wambach's best friend. Yeah. And that's my dream. And also she calls me

a femme dom. If you want to know what that means. This is what's going to be going on our new bios now.

Katie Gavin is now our best friend.

...