Hello already welcome back to another episode of the Cathelf Primer, as always I'm your host Simon

I'm seeing one of my writers in this case Matthew, thank you Matthew.

There's several Matthews, this is Matthew Markham or as I always write him in light of my notes

Matthew M.

Well you know where you're a school and there's like when I was a kid there were like

17 bens everyone was called Ben and it be Ben A Ben B B B B B B B B B B B B B B C too because maybe

there's two Ben C's it was like that but I always think of Matthew Markham as Matthew M

Fascinating Simon that's no one's here for this just get on with the bloody story, will you?

Exactly how much pain can one man be expected to bear?

That was the question that Cindy best asked herself on the evening she first met a future

husband Carl Carlson inside a country line dancing bar in Seneca Falls, New York in late 1992.

This is the most American thing I've ever heard.

Country line dancing.

That sounds like something that only happens in America.

I'm not even sure what line dancing is. Is that just people

dancing on a line? On that night, as rowdy patrons filtered in and out around

them and the sounds of music and conversation filled the room, Cindy sat with Carl

transfixed by the story of a man who had

suffered so greatly throughout his life.

According to Carl, he'd never been able to overcome the circumstances of his birth, never

been able to break the cycle of poverty that so many in America face daily. Having once held high aspirations as a teenager, finding himself working in a factory in rural New York in his early 30s, was a great disappointment to be sure.

As he saw it, he had been beaten into submission by a cruel world, and worst of all, less

...