This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brewski.

We are diving deeper into the Karen Reid case today, not just the what's, the when, or the where we're going deep into the why.

Why do certain people stick to narratives that seem to defy evidence?

Why do others double down on a narrative even when it starts falling apart?

And more importantly, how do you spot the difference between a truth teller and someone selling you a polished high gloss version of events?

Joining us is someone who spent his career doing exactly that, retired FBI special agent,

Robin Drake, former head of the counterintelligence behavioral analysis program. Robin, let's start

here from your perspective when you see a suspect publicly doubling down in their interviews

aggressively pushing a counter-narrative while seemingly disregarding contradictory

evidence or contradictory things that she said in the past that are directly different

than what it was now. What are the behavioral tells you're looking for that might point to

deception versus conviction.

There's a lot. There's a lot to unpack in that. Yeah, there is. So let's, boy, we can go

deception versus truth if you want first. And that is, because that's the toughest one. No one knows,

though. No one can predict

deception from truth and so especially when you have has been so noted so many times by us and

others it went when you have so much alcohol involved and then yes you have time passing you

has false narratives and false memories implanted in your brain and then kind of morphed it into the

topic of what we're talking about is why would she do the things she's doing and a lot of it is

from my standpoint in our conjecture is she's trying to continually control the narrative that's been

placed against her she feels like a victim and she's trying to control

the situation. And that's what starts it. But then when you get the fan club around you that is

...