Karen Hao exposes how AI bros are building an EMPIRE to control the future
Ways to Change the World with Krishnan Guru-Murthy
Channel 4 News
4.7 • 1.2K Ratings
🗓️ 22 May 2026
⏱️ 37 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Artificial intelligence is often sold as inevitable — a force that will transform our lives for the better. But Karen Hao believes that story is too simple, and too convenient.
An author and journalist, she has spent years investigating the people behind the AI boom. In her book Empire of AI, she argues that the technology is not just being built — it’s being shaped by a small group of companies driven by competition and a desire for dominance.
In this episode, Krishnan delves into whether she is now an activist as she continues to challenge the idea that AI’s future is already written. So, who really decides how AI develops — and is it too late to change course?
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Sam Malmann said that he wanted to fund 10x more startups year after year until he funded |
| 0:06.2 | all of the startups in the world. |
| 0:07.8 | That drive to want to empire builds, to want to be the dominant force that actually |
| 0:13.5 | gets to shape this technology and therefore the future of society was ever present and |
| 0:18.8 | a guiding North Star. |
| 0:20.7 | Why are we creating something that replaces human beings? |
| 0:24.6 | These companies want efficiencies now, |
| 0:26.8 | and they're making a future bet that they won't have to have these human employees anymore. |
| 0:31.1 | That's creating a desperate base of workers who then have no full-time employment opportunities to turn to. |
| 0:40.3 | Hello and welcome to Ways to Change the World. |
| 0:42.9 | I'm Christian Guru Murphy, and this is the podcast where we talk to extraordinary people |
| 0:47.1 | about the big ideas in their lives and the events that have helped shape them. |
| 0:51.1 | My guest today is an author, journalist, and founder of the AI Resist List, |
| 0:56.3 | which, as the name suggests, is helping people resist the mythology and impact of artificial |
| 1:01.1 | intelligence on our lives to stop its potential abuse of power. Karen Howe has spent years |
| 1:06.9 | uncovering how the race to build advanced AI is reshaping labor, democracy and inequality. |
| 1:13.5 | She's not anti-AI, but believes there is a better way. Her book, Empire of AI, looks in-depth |
| 1:20.3 | at the people controlling the AI companies and what their real motivations might be. Welcome, Karen. |
| 1:26.9 | Thank you so much for having me. |
| 1:28.0 | So if you could change the world and you are clearly trying to, how would you change it? |
| 1:33.0 | And I just ultimately want everyone to be able to have a dignified life, have access to good |
| 1:38.9 | economic opportunity, good health care, good education. And part of the reason why I'm so |
... |
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