I think once we're getting to a place where we're having this pretty watered down simplistic

debate that you hear people say, well, I think someone like Kanye's, you know, account

should be deleted.

I think it should be frozen, but not deleted.

I think he should be able to say whatever he wants.

You can defend any of those positions if you want to, but they're all 25 steps down

the causal chain too late, but what went wrong is so far up the chain of events that

it's like, there's no good options left.

I'm John Favreau.

Welcome to Offline.

Hey, everyone.

My guest today is the New Yorkers Andrew Moran's.

So unfortunately, we need to talk about Kanye West.

Not just because he's gone on an anti-Semitic bender that may end with him buying the alt-right

social media app parlour, but because the story of his radicalization is also a story about

the internet, which is why our guest today is an expert in online extremism.

A few years ago, Andrew embedded himself with alt-right trolls and interviewed social media

founders for his book Anti-Social.

Last week, he applied the lessons he learned from that book to Kanye West, writing a piece

for the New Yorker titled Kanye West's Parlor Games.

In it, he argues that Kanye's path from George Bush doesn't care about black people to white

lives matter and anti-Semitism isn't all that unfamiliar.

...