This is the Tom Hartman program.

On the line with us, our buddy David Pepper, the writer, his latest book

Saving Democracy, a user's manual for every American political activist, former elected official,

adjunct professor at the University of Cincinnati College of Law, served as chair, chairman of the Ohio

Democratic Party from 2015 to 2021 and writes a great

newsletter over on Substack that I strongly recommend you to subscribe to it's

absolutely free as most are

David pepper dot sub-stack dot com will get you there

that's called pepper perspectives

and David welcome back to the program

thank you great to be back with you it's great to have have you. I noticed in one of your notes that Kamala Harris had given you a call after,

am I remembering that right, after one of your books?

Yeah, I was, as I described it in my newsletter today. It wasn't just that she called me, but it was what it was about.

I, you know that you and I talked to this a lot, that the front line of the attack on democracy are the states and state houses.

A lot of federal officials I worry don't see that.

So we too often don't look at these state houses as the front lines that they are.

And the reason Vice President Harris called me, it was about a year ago,

was because she had seen me on Morning Joe saying that, and she called me up to say,

David, I so agree with what you're talking about, we need to do better, we need to do more and as you know the reason

I wrote about today is now that she's a candy for president I can't be more

excited that someone who hopefully we do our job well is in that job

understands this state-based view of the problem.

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