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Before we start, a warning that this episode contains descriptions of violence, please

listen with care. This time, on Just Say You're Sorry.

It starts with Ashley, practically telling me in my holy shit you're not going to believe

this. That whole timeline is so shaky. Nobody can say how long she'd been dead.

He's just sort of a Greek tragedy, you know, because like you want that person to

be a hero and then he's just got this hubris.

We're going to start this episode far from Texas in another state that also has a strong

sense of identity and mythology, California. We're just an hour's drive north of Hollywood,

but you wouldn't know it, because prisons tend to look the same wherever they are.

A journalist named Jillian Lauren is entering one for the first time.

The big gate close behind you, you know, they gave me a whole lot of shit at the metal detector

because of my nose ring. I had to like pry my nose ring out, bloody nose, and my underwear.

I chew my underwear out of my bra. It was a very feral kind of first introduction to

a maximum security prison.

After all that, Jillian enters a visitation room to interview a prisoner.

So he's an old man in a wheelchair. I was a foot from his face. He did something that

...