Hello and welcome to today's independent travel podcast with me, Simon Calder.

I like to bring you interesting guests from the world of travel, and today it is the turn of Kennedy Rickey.

He is the president of Four Air.

Now, Kennedy, do tell us what Four Air is and what Four Air does.

Sure thing. Absolutely. I appreciate the opportunity to be here, Simon. So,

For Air is a solutions provider focused on sustainability solutions within aviation.

So we saw, you know, a few years ago as sustainability became more and more

important, more prevalent in kind of, you know, global conversation, aviation didn't have a silver

bullet, didn't have easy answers. So we needed something that was going to look at the nuance of

aviation, look at the nuance of sustainability. And so we brought those two together and we provide,

you know,

voluntary programs to help people achieve and access sustainability solutions more easily.

We see the interest in aviation and we want to make it easy for them to participate.

The paper that I'm looking at, which I've spent actually a number of hours studying,

is it looks like a very learned academic text. It's called

an application of current scientific research around non-CO2 emissions and a flight-by-flight

contrail footprint for a business aviation operator. Now, I'm going to, if I may, explain what

that means from my point of view.

You can heckle and correct me if you like, or you can then tell me a bit more about it.

So the idea is that con trails, which is short for condensation trails, they are effectively artificial clouds that are created by aircraft

engines. And there are two kinds of contrails from the point of view of climate change. If you're

worried about global warming, some of them will actually help to cool the earth, but most of them,

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