You know, so many people, they're just like, I want to help people.

Well, you can't even help people if you can't walk yourself or you don't really know who you are.

And I mean, know who you are when you're on your knees, when you've been in that moment.

And so the beauty of those experiences is it shizzles you into a servant because suddenly you understand

that you are not in control of any of this.

And all, all ma has to do is shake a little bit and we all go flying like ants in the wind.

So when most of us think about those moments in life that bring us to our knees that are very often filled with struggle and pain,

I think it's probably safe to say we don't look at them as sacred moments.

Well, today's guest, Julie Pia, has a bit of a different lens.

In fact, she looks at them as profoundly sacred.

That's one of the things that we talk about along with a whole bunch of other things.

Julie's been on the show in the past.

We talked about the book that she actually co-wrote with her husband, Rich Roll, the Plant Power Way,

and sort of her journey as a spiritual teacher and musician and healer and somebody who lives a plant-based lifestyle.

We go deeper into some really specific topics this time.

She's also got a new book out called This Cheese Is Nuts, which is actually a really fun and playful name for a two-year experimental deep dive into making these luscious, delicious,

cheeses and cheese-based dishes from plants without using the traditional dairy and stuff like that.

By the way, the images in the book are kind of mind-blowingly stunning and the food looks just ridiculously good.

I can't wait to dive into this and start making them for myself.

But we dive into some tough, some raw, some challenging places here.

We talk about spirituality and food.

We talk about those moments when we are brought to her knees.

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