Hello, my name's David Rumsman and this is Talking Politics.

Today, two conversations with the great feminist theorist and writer Judith Butler.

One recorded nearly four years ago, just a week after Donald Trump was elected President of the United States.

The other one recorded this week, in which we think about the possibility that his presidency is approaching its end.

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We've been looking back over the Talking Politics Archive and picking out one or two of the most

memorable episodes, certainly the most memorable for us. And this is one, the original recording

we made with Judith Butler just after Trump's victory. We asked Judith if she would be willing

to talk now about some of the things that she raised back then and to our great pleasure,

she said yes. So the first conversation is one that was recorded in Cambridge,

face to face when that was still possible, how I miss it. The second one was recorded with

Judith a few days ago. She's in Berkeley, California. We'll come on to that one after the first one,

because we pick up on the themes of the original conversation. I think you'll be able to hear

when we spoke in November 2016 just how raw some of the emotions still were. And there

is a little bit of shock as well. And what's weird when I

listen back to it is the feeling that the shock hasn't completely gone away. So first of all,

...