Hello, hello, I'm Hugo Rifkin, and now we're going to be unpacking the politics of the day. And today it's all about Kirstama's fight with the civil servant, Ollie Robbins. And in the blue corner, we've got Libby Purvis. Hello, Libby. Hello. Good to have you with us. And in the red corner, we've got the late Seb Payne, but which I don't mean he's dead, just that he's late. Libby, before he gets here, what do you think of him really? What, of Seb Payne? Yeah. Just talk freely. He's just sitting down. He went here. He's all right. He's a clever, clever lad um seems very young and clever to me inspired with awe

frankly sir sir very kind of you have you caught your breath seb you need a moment i'm absolutely

fine you're sorry to keep you waiting it's there's a bit of news you know it's always always very

tricky there is stuff going on i will allow it uh particularly as I know how the lifts can be in this building.

Let's crack on. In the House of Commons later today, Kirstarmer is going to attempt to set the record straight, arguing that the Peter Mandelson vetting scandal was not his fault. He claims the responsibility actually lies with the senior civil servant, Ollie Robbins, who will have the chance to bet his case to MPs tomorrow. Seb, I'll start with you now.

You've got your breath back.

Are you Team Robbins or Team Stama?

Is it possible to say who will have the chance to bit his case to MPs tomorrow. Seb, I'll start with you now.

You've got your breath back.

Are you Team Robbins or Team Stama?

Is it possible to say that they're both wrong in this situation?

Can you just have split loyalties on this?

Could you accept that as an argument?

I mean, I don't like it, but I'll go along with it.

Okay, it was very Peter Hanover.

Thank you.

So I think, look, exactly.

Carry on.

I would say, first of all, Kirstama, obviously, has committed the original sin in this whole row

by appointing Peter Manderson in the first pace.

And what the Prime Minister, I think, has almost failed to realise is when he made that

announcement that Peter Manelson was going to be the ambassador, that set off a whole chain of events that led to the

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