From KCRW Santa Monica and KCRW.com, it's The Treatment.

Welcome to The Treatment. I'm Elvis Mitchell. In the terrific new HBO documentary,

the Zen Diaries of Gary Shandling, there's a moment that's a visual metaphor for the film where we see a young Gary Shandling with his mom carrying her horseback, which is basically in so many ways the movie is about. This director and our old friend, Judd Apatow is here. First of all, Judd, good to have you back.

Good to be back. And that moment really is the metaphor. It's like when you saw that piece of feeling, you still thought, I've got my movie.

It's funny because he had stacks of VHS tapes.

And we were so anal.

We were just going through anything that wasn't labeled.

And there was a tape.

I think Anna just had like memories or, you know, like it was from some company.

And we had no idea what it was.

And it was a VHS dub of all of the family's home movies shot on Super 8 back in the day.

And on it were a lot of images that were very powerful, where you could

see, let's say, the intensity of his mother's engulfment of him. And one of them was her riding

on his back as he ran around the room at some birthday party, I think. It's a really painful and kind of honest moment to watch.

And it's so interesting because the thing that the movie doesn't do is to make his life reductive.

I mean, what we get a chance to see from all the people you talk to is that he was a different person to so many people, wasn't he?

I think so.

There were people he felt safe with.

There were people he confided with. There were people he

confided in. There were other people. He just was a funny friend and they just made jokes together.

There were people he was deeply in conflict with. He had a lot of very different types of

relationships. And most of those people didn't know about the other people.

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