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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Adlots podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway.

And I'm Joe, why isn't all? You know what you never see.

Go on. That's pretty open-ended.

Yeah, okay. Well, you know, as a journalist, I'm told to ask open-ended questions,

but you never see anyone connect climate change with real yields and secular stagnation.

But I enlarge those are pretty separate conversations. I mean, maybe the secular stagnation part

but I definitely do not see much conversation connecting the dots between anything that's

going on in interest rates or real rates or anything like that in climate. Yeah, that's exactly

right. So despite the fact that every bank in the world seems to be really high on ESG right now

and certainly you and I are on the receiving ends of, you know, tons of press releases about what

banks are doing in the space. You actually don't see that many people talk about climate change

from a market's perspective, which is kind of weird because if you think about the battle,

the climate change battle right now, so much of it is about estimating the costs and the benefits

or the costs versus the benefits of actually tackling this issue. And if you think about how you

calculate cost and benefit, that's basically a market question, right? Like you have to consider

how the market is functioning and at what rate the market is actually rewarding action at any

...