Welcome to the After-On podcast. I'm your host, Rob Reed.

And this is a series of conversations with thinkers, founders, and scientists.

Take a little time and stretch out because these talks are unhurry and meant to bring you

to a top percentile understanding of something important.

So whether you're ready to start up your ideas, a techie or a lit major, take your time,

engage your mind, and you'll be glad you did.

Especially this week when we'll be talking to...

Jordan Harbinger, who's joining me today in an unusual episode, which is basically a bonus

episode, in that it's additive to the main body of entirely original shows that I'm producing

this month.

You see, Jordan, like me, hosts a podcast. It's called The Jordan Harbinger Show, which

is a bit more descriptive than my own title.

And today I'm sharing an episode from his show With You. And Jordan will be doing the same

thing with one of my episodes on his show next week. We're mainly doing this because we're

confident our audiences will really enjoy the shows that we're sharing, but also because

we're both completely independent creators, and we want to support each other's work.

As you may know, most of the top podcasts are connected to big media entities like NPR

and The New York Times, or to large podcast networks like Gimlett, Radio Topia, etc.

Those affiliations bring money, staff, and or promotional muscle to their shows that

independence like me and Jordan completely lack, which is actually great because it results

in some amazing shows on those networks.

Now one of the many cool things that big networks often do is introduce listeners to other

...