It was supposed to be a discussion of culture and conscience with two social scientists.

Biological anthropologist Melvin Conner has studied the evolution of childhood.

Social psychologist Jonathan Height gained prominence with his work on why good people are

divided by politics and religion.

Now he's studying the relationship between capitalism and human conscience.

The liberal view of capitalism as essentially exploitative may remain alive and well, he says,

but the ironic truth of history is that capitalism, while championed by conservatives, actually

generates liberal values as it takes root in societies.

Our conversation preceded this cultural political season, but it offers provocative perspective

on it.

I'm not optimistic about the American government, but I am very optimistic about America's

future because I think people our age who grew up expecting that the point of civic engagement

is to be active so we can make the government fix civil rights or something.

We got to make the government do something.

And young people have grown up, never seen the government do anything except turn the light

soft now and then.

And so their activism is not going to be to get the government to do things.

It's going to be to invent a way of some app, some way of solving problems separately.

And that's going to work.

So I'm actually very optimistic about the future, just not the Congress.

Well, I, you know, the idea that we're more polarized than that than we've ever been, I think,

is not true.

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