John Roberts: Umpire or Ultimate Decider?

Talking Feds

Harry Litman

News, Government, Politics

4.8 • 4.5K Ratings

🗓️ 15 January 2026

⏱️ 42 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Chief Justice John Roberts famously told the country that, if confirmed to the Supreme Court, he would act like an umpire—just there to call balls and strikes. To help answer the question of how Umpire Roberts Court has fared, Harry spoke with Lisa Graves about her new book, Without Precedent: How Chief Justice Roberts and His Accomplices Rewrote the Constitution and Dismantled Our Rights, in which Graves makes the case that Roberts has acted less as an umpire than a political loyalist. In the conversation, Harry and Lisa discuss Roberts’s background as a movement conservative at DOJ, his nomination and ascension as Chief Justice, and his tenure now entering its third decade. They also delve into the modern Federalist Society, unpacking how Roberts and his fellow conservative justices align—or don’t—with its ideology. With the Supreme Court wielding unprecedented influence over American policy, this discussion provides a clear look at how we arrived at the Court we have today. Read Lisa's book: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/lisa-graves/without-precedent/9781645030676/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	This episode is brought to you by Shopify. With Shopify, 2026 is the year you make it happen. It gives you the tools to build your dream store, online and in person. Plus with marketing built in, it'll help you reach exactly who you need to. Join the millions who've already made the leap, like Jim Shark and all birds, and ring in the new year with Shopify.
0:23.3	Sign up for your £1 per month trial at Shopify.com.uk slash Spotify.
0:32.3	Welcome to Talking Fed's one-on-one, deep-dive discussions with national figures
0:42.3	about the most fascinating and consequential issues defining our culture and shaping our lives.
0:49.8	I'm your host, Harry Littman.
0:52.5	Looking ahead at the prospects for keeping Trump from realizing his autocratic ambitions,
0:59.2	nearly all roads seem to lead to the Supreme Court and through the Supreme Court.
1:04.6	In 10 months of Trump's second term, the court has repeatedly ruled in his favor,
1:10.3	often reversing lower courts through emergency orders
1:13.8	issued with little or no explanation. A few exceptions exist, including the court's insistence that
1:20.6	the administration provide notice and a hearing before deportations. But the broader pattern
1:27.0	raises the central question of this moment,
1:30.8	will the Roberts Court prove a bulwark against authoritarian overreach, or will the task fall
1:37.7	in its absence to democratic resistance outside the court? Our guest is uniquely positioned to help us understand that critical point.
1:47.7	Lisa Graves, founder and executive director of True North Research,
1:52.5	longtime Senate Judiciary Committee Council and senior DOJ official,
1:57.5	and author now of, without precedent, how Chief Justice Roberts and his accomplices
2:05.0	rewrote the Constitution and dismantled our rights. So you have a sense of the position that
2:13.4	she may be taking here. But it's a sweeping and deeply researched account of John Roberts,
2:19.3	in particular, and the modern conservative legal movement. Lisa, an old friend and colleague,
2:25.8	great to see you, and congrats on the book. Thank you so much, Harry. It's an honor to be on your
2:30.8	show, and thank you so much for that lovely praise. All right.
	...

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